Comments on: Off-Highway Vehicles Cause Damage in Shasta and Trinity Counties http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/ Day Hikes/Backpacking: Bay Area | Coast | Redwoods | Sierra Nevada | Desolation Wilderness | Lake Tahoe | Lassen Park | Mount Shasta | Trinity Alps | State Parks | National Parks | National Forests | Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:38:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: vinny http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-1173 vinny Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:51:18 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-1173 Put me in too. I'll do my part. Put me in too. I’ll do my part.

]]> By: Nick http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-740 Nick Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:19:55 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-740 Let's work together Let’s work together

]]> By: Nick http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-739 Nick Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:17:02 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-739 The real loser will be our childern if we all (hiker,ATVer and forest service ) to not work together on these issuse and not just throw blame. Responsible land use is everyone's responsibility. The Clear Creek reference made by Mr DeCamp seems to be the kind of ammunition the land use critics grab on to. Before last June 2008 riding in Clear Creek was not illegal. Many of the conservation areas were fenced off and riders respected this for the sake of keeping Clear Creek Open. So this illegal riding statement by Mr DeCamp is misguiding and for someone working for the forest service should know this. Issues such as the closing of Clear Creek has consolidate the 40,000 plus annual Clear Creek offroad users to go to other riding / mountain Biking and hiking areas such as Shasta/ Trinity. The possibility of total land closure to all offroad (hiking/biking and ohv) uses in the name of conservation in California is real. The Clear Creek closure was an example of how flawed/ Tainted information by the land conservationists and their lawyers pressure can stop all of our activities on public land. The land use issues in other parts of California will affect the Shasta Trinity area. So we need to become a group to promote responsible land use and set up work days with the BLM local offices to work on these damaged areas and not fuel the land closure fire. I will be the first to help. (D-36 Enduro rider) with 3 Kids 11, 14, 17 that ride responsibly and pack our stuff out when camping). With our economy suffering more and more families are looking to outdoor recreation. If we are not careful and do not work together this means of recreation will be eliminated. The real loser will be our childern if we all (hiker,ATVer and forest service ) to not work together on these issuse and not just throw blame. Responsible land use is everyone’s responsibility. The Clear Creek reference made by Mr DeCamp seems to be the kind of ammunition the land use critics grab on to. Before last June 2008 riding in Clear Creek was not illegal. Many of the conservation areas were fenced off and riders respected this for the sake of keeping Clear Creek Open. So this illegal riding statement by Mr DeCamp is misguiding and for someone working for the forest service should know this. Issues such as the closing of Clear Creek has consolidate the 40,000 plus annual Clear Creek offroad users to go to other riding / mountain Biking and hiking areas such as Shasta/ Trinity. The possibility of total land closure to all offroad (hiking/biking and ohv) uses in the name of conservation in California is real.
The Clear Creek closure was an example of how flawed/ Tainted information by the land conservationists and their lawyers pressure can stop all of our activities on public land. The land use issues in other parts of California will affect the Shasta Trinity area. So we need to become a group to promote responsible land use and set up work days with the BLM local offices to work on these damaged areas and not fuel the land closure fire. I will be the first to help. (D-36 Enduro rider) with 3 Kids 11, 14, 17 that ride responsibly and pack our stuff out when camping). With our economy suffering more and more families are looking to outdoor recreation. If we are not careful and do not work together this means of recreation will be eliminated.

]]> By: Disputes Over OHV Use Can Turn Violent | Northern California Hiking Trails Blog http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-707 Disputes Over OHV Use Can Turn Violent | Northern California Hiking Trails Blog Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:15:54 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-707 [...] early November I wrote about an editorial discussing off-highway vehicles (OHVs) and the damage some have done in Shasta and Trinity counties. The comments (all ten of them) came on both sides of the issue, and it was a very useful exchange [...] [...] early November I wrote about an editorial discussing off-highway vehicles (OHVs) and the damage some have done in Shasta and Trinity counties. The comments (all ten of them) came on both sides of the issue, and it was a very useful exchange [...]

]]> By: Don T. http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-628 Don T. Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:28:03 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-628 Ken's comments are the typical "good cop,bad cop" response to law breakers. What Ken and the enforcement agencies DON'T mention is the LEGAL destruction of public lands through contracts with the gov't that persue such activities as over forresting, strip mining and oil exploration. After all, these again are legal operatives even though the comparison in damage is not even worth mentioning. You're a cop Ken! (how proud you must be..) Ken’s comments are the typical “good cop,bad cop” response to law breakers. What Ken and the enforcement agencies DON’T mention is the LEGAL destruction of public lands through contracts with the gov’t that persue such activities as over forresting, strip mining and oil exploration. After all, these again are legal operatives even though the comparison in damage is not even worth mentioning. You’re a cop Ken! (how proud you must be..)

]]> By: John Soares http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-620 John Soares Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:55:27 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-620 Hello Ken. I agree with what you say here. I think OHVs should certainly have lots of places they can go on BLM and USFS land. And I'd very much like to see them doing more to police the OHV users who don't follow the rules. I had an enduro motorcycle from ages 18-22. One memorable ride I took started from Old Shasta to Platina Road to the top of Bully Choop, the top of Shasta Bally, and then coasting down to the Brandy Creek marina on the fumes still in my gas tank. It was a special day with stunning scenery, and it was my OHV that made it possible. I stayed on the Forest Service roads the whole way. Hello Ken. I agree with what you say here. I think OHVs should certainly have lots of places they can go on BLM and USFS land. And I’d very much like to see them doing more to police the OHV users who don’t follow the rules.

I had an enduro motorcycle from ages 18-22. One memorable ride I took started from Old Shasta to Platina Road to the top of Bully Choop, the top of Shasta Bally, and then coasting down to the Brandy Creek marina on the fumes still in my gas tank. It was a special day with stunning scenery, and it was my OHV that made it possible. I stayed on the Forest Service roads the whole way.

]]> By: Ken DeCamp http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-616 Ken DeCamp Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:40:21 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-616 Hi John... The vast majority of responses to my article have been positive. Those negative responses were mostly gut reactions to issues the responders themselves implied from my statements. I DO NOT favor banning OHVs from the Forest. I do, however believe that OHV groups should do more to police themselves and the groups of rogue riders who can't seem to control themselves. I would also like to see OHV groups do more to restore areas where damage has occurred... ie: the areas off 299 that I referred to in my commentary and others like it. I agree that all sorts of people abuse public and private lands, hikers and mountain bikers as well as OHVers. It is up to responsible people to attempt to make good on the abuses of the irresponsible. I, for example, an avid hiker and backpacker. As such I have taken it upon myself to maintain a couple of trails out at Shasta Lake that I use for trail running. When I backpack I haul trash out of the wilderness and destroy illegal fire rings. I hate to equate humans with pigs because pigs are clean animals if given the chance, but the comparison to the pig in the sty and those who abuse the environment has to be made. Unfortunately, pigs can't read, nor do they care to learn. They want what they want and they don't want anyone getting in the way who might inhibit their perceived rights to have fun at all cost. Thanks for the opportunity to comment... Hi John… The vast majority of responses to my article have been positive. Those negative responses were mostly gut reactions to issues the responders themselves implied from my statements. I DO NOT favor banning OHVs from the Forest. I do, however believe that OHV groups should do more to police themselves and the groups of rogue riders who can’t seem to control themselves. I would also like to see OHV groups do more to restore areas where damage has occurred… ie: the areas off 299 that I referred to in my commentary and others like it. I agree that all sorts of people abuse public and private lands, hikers and mountain bikers as well as OHVers. It is up to responsible people to attempt to make good on the abuses of the irresponsible. I, for example, an avid hiker and backpacker. As such I have taken it upon myself to maintain a couple of trails out at Shasta Lake that I use for trail running. When I backpack I haul trash out of the wilderness and destroy illegal fire rings.
I hate to equate humans with pigs because pigs are clean animals if given the chance, but the comparison to the pig in the sty and those who abuse the environment has to be made. Unfortunately, pigs can’t read, nor do they care to learn. They want what they want and they don’t want anyone getting in the way who might inhibit their perceived rights to have fun at all cost.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment…

]]> By: John Soares http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-279 John Soares Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:55:33 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-279 Tom, all excellent points. I think a key issue is that it is very difficult to enforce rules on OHV users. A large majority of riders may follow the rules, but there is a substantial minority that does not. Government agencies don't have the personnel to monitor OHV use. Ideally it would be great if OHV users could monitor themselves, but in many instances it's not practical. Tom, all excellent points.

I think a key issue is that it is very difficult to enforce rules on OHV users. A large majority of riders may follow the rules, but there is a substantial minority that does not.

Government agencies don’t have the personnel to monitor OHV use. Ideally it would be great if OHV users could monitor themselves, but in many instances it’s not practical.

]]> By: The Trout Underground http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-278 The Trout Underground Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:36:33 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-278 The 800 pound gorilla is the unwillingness of ATV riders to stay on trails. The problem isn't simply that trail use is bad, it's that trail boundaries aren't often respected, and the community has done little to police itself. For that matter, I think the industry has to answer for some of the damages; commercials for ATVs often involve activities like cutting straight up the side of a hill, blasting through streams, etc - things that are damaging and in many cases illegal. The idea that ATV riders need more space when as a group they haven't demonstrated a willingness to police themselves is nonsensical. I know several people who are responsible ATV users, but have unfortunately run into a lot more in this area who aren't. The 800 pound gorilla is the unwillingness of ATV riders to stay on trails. The problem isn’t simply that trail use is bad, it’s that trail boundaries aren’t often respected, and the community has done little to police itself.

For that matter, I think the industry has to answer for some of the damages; commercials for ATVs often involve activities like cutting straight up the side of a hill, blasting through streams, etc – things that are damaging and in many cases illegal.

The idea that ATV riders need more space when as a group they haven’t demonstrated a willingness to police themselves is nonsensical.

I know several people who are responsible ATV users, but have unfortunately run into a lot more in this area who aren’t.

]]> By: Klamath National Forest Off-Highway Vehicle–OHV Use | Northern California Hiking Trails Blog http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/2008/11/09/off-highway-vehicles-cause-damage-in-shasta-and-trinity-counties/comment-page-1/#comment-275 Klamath National Forest Off-Highway Vehicle–OHV Use | Northern California Hiking Trails Blog Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:37:24 +0000 http://northerncaliforniahikingtrails.com/blog/?p=132#comment-275 [...] Off-Highway Vehicles Cause Damage in Shasta and Trinity Counties [...] [...] Off-Highway Vehicles Cause Damage in Shasta and Trinity Counties [...]

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